The latest Western League Podcast saw Ian Nockold’s interviewing Radstock Town’s Secretary, Ian Lanning following his 1,000th game as professional kitman.

IN: I’m delighted to welcome Ian Lanning, the Secretary of Radstock Town and also the MK Dons kit man to the Toolstation Western League podcast. Ian, thank you very much for taking the time to speak to us. There was a reason we wanted to get you on because you celebrated something of an incredible milestone recently; 1,000 games not out, that really is an incredible achievement.

IL: Yes, so MK Dons, it turned into working my 1,000th professional game, covered over a spell of 16 years at Cardiff City, then four years at MK Dons as well.

IN: And you spent it in some style, didn’t you?

IL: Yes. Obviously, I wanted to commemorate the game in memorial of my friend Chris Barker, who passed away on January 1 2020. So it was keeping his memory alive really, because we haven’t been able to celebrate his life that much, or raise anything in his passing. So, I thought it was an ideal opportunity to raise some money for Mind, the Bath Mind charity, by just doing it in traditional kit man style of just wearing shorts and a T-shirt on the touchline.

IN: So you were in shorts and T-shirt, in the freezing cold, on a Tuesday evening in Rochdale?

IL: Yes, it was minus five degrees, snow falling throughout the game as well. I was probably warming up just as much as the players throughout the pre-match warm-up on the pitch, then obviously getting a couple of minutes before kick-off to go back in and warm up. I think I spent most the first half holding a cup of coffee in my hands, rather than drinking it trying to keep warm.

IN: You mentioned there that you were raising money for the Mind charity. Is that fundraising page still open?

IL: Yes, it’s on my JustGiving page, which is available on my Twitter and has been on the Radstock Town Twitter page as well.

IN: Excellent. Well, we’ll have a reminder of that before we finish the interview. But I mean, 1,000 games! When you first became a kit man 16 years ago, did you think we’d be here talking about your 1,000th game?

IL: Absolutely not. While I was at school coaching on local community clubs, and would varsity on the community scheme, always wanted that step into the professional game. And probably on that side of the game, really, more on the coaching and player development rather than on the team logistics side of things.

IN: So what was it that got you your first position?

IL: Um, pretty much while I was coaching on the community scheme at Bath City, the previous club Secretary left to go to Cardiff. And then a couple of years later, I had a phone call saying that the position had become vacant, they were holding interviews and I could be an ideal candidate for that job.

IN: And the rest is history.

IL: The rest is very much history. Walking in with an interview, at the time with the manager Alan Cork and his coaching staff at the old Dominion [Road] Park Stadium. It was quite surreal being a 20-year-old that had grown up in Bath and, obviously, seeing some of these players like Alan Cork in the Sheffield United era, and the Wimbledon era, with his big bushy beard as well. It was quite surreal, really, but it was literally the interview, gone back, offered the job, and pretty much not knowing the full ins and outs of the job at the time, what it entailed. It was go home, pack a bag, we’re travelling to Brighton down to the Withdean for the following day, and you’re travelling.

IN: It must have been quite a steep learning curve for you.

IL: It was, at the time the goalkeeping coach George Wood and one of the physios helped me through it, showed me the practicalities and the operation they had in scheme. And it was literally a chance over the years and as the club progressed, I probably progressed and developed the role, as well how the game changes in far more professional way in the provision of what you’re looking to provide players.

IN: So, 1,000 games is quite a back catalogue to look back on, but I can’t do an interview like this without asking if there were some particularly memorable games within that?

IL: There’s three or four that do stand out. With Cardiff, there was the playoff semi-final in 2003 at Ashton Gate, the second leg where we drew to get to the final at the Millennium Stadium against QPR, so winning the playoff final in the Millennium Stadium was a fantastic achievement. Following on from that we had, which you’ll be delighted as you’ve been a Portsmouth fan, the proud moment, I know we lost the game but walking out as part of the staff with the team for an FA Cup Final in 2008, to have family and friends there. I think we had a bus, even at Bath, that came up with nearly 40 people. Our family and friends managed to get that many tickets for the game. And to be part of that was a fantastic achievement, and then following on from that, the Carling Cup final where we again lost on penalties to Liverpool. So with both of those as championship clubs, as a championship club at the time, was far more a fantastic achievement for the clubs, but one of the biggest had to have been under Malky Mackay that promotion to the Premier League from the championship as champions, as well. More recently, the Mansfield game for MK Dons where we clinched promotion in a win or bust game on the final day of the season that we had to win, Mansfield only needed a draw for promotion, and it was obviously a very tight game, we scored early on, it was probably one of the most nervous games that I’ve been involved in all those years.

IN: I mean, the other thing we need to reflect upon is the fact that of course for the overwhelming majority of your matches, fans have been inside the stadium. I know that that sounds like a bit of a silly thing to say but given the times we’re living in, I think the point is worth making, because of course, you’ve stood inside a Wembley Stadium that’s had 80,000 people in it, you’ve stood inside the Millennium Stadium, some of the great grounds that grace the Football League and the Premier League. And of course, one of the things that people do enjoy about professional football, is that matchday atmosphere, I’m sure it’s been one of the contributing factors that’s made to the occasions that you’ve just described. So, what’s it been like for you over the last couple of seasons, where you’ve got that contrast between having been in those stadiums with all those people, and actually now, you could hear a pin drop?

IL: It’s quite surreal. It’s not unfamiliar surroundings for the players and the staff, because we do play in-house games. You play reserve games at the stadium, so it’s not ... I think the passing on information for players on the pitch is probably more valuable. And also, one of the things I’ve noticed is you actually hear comments being made by the referees, so they can’t hide behind signals as well on their decisions. They’re having to actually, when they were trying to explain the decisions, everyone is aware of why they’re doing that as well. And I think that’s one of the biggest factors that you’re seeing within the game. Some of the bigger grounds you can go to, you’ll hear moments of fans, but a lot of the time it can be a hum, like Millennium Stadium, Wembley, it’s the hum, it’s just background sounds. You probably used to hear it more at grounds like the Ninian Park, or even Ashton Gate, Bristol Rovers, where the fans are on top of you. Even going to Millwall, you’ve got the fans sat right behind the dugout and you hear every word that’s being said. Well, we were lucky enough MK this year to have had two games with the limited fans before the restrictions. And it actually gave it more of a Western League feel, because you would hear the individual comments that you do hear, so if somebody does something on the pitch, you get that reaction from an individual that comes out with those certain shouts and the players notice it more or the staff as well.

IN: Do you think it’s had an impact on the performance levels? Do you think that there are players out there, like you said with some of them, particularly those who are perhaps used to reserve games, for them they’re more accustomed to these surroundings. But particularly at the top end of the elite level, is there an element of performance about some of the great players that you shared a dressing room with, do they need that crowd to give them that extra 1% or 2% that makes them that special player?

IL: It’s a complete range of the spectrum, really, because some players do thrive on the crowd and the background. I remember when he was at Cardiff, Michael Chopra, would love playing up to the crowd and bouncing off of them. Others I’ve worked with actually try and blank the crowd, Craig Bellamy for example, would try and just ignore the crowd and what’s going on and focus on what’s on the pitch. There’s always that shout that some players are unbelievable in training but could not always turn up on match days. So, I think it’s taken that element of pressure, that they can relax, they’re not having to perform. There are some players over the years you’ll see love playing football for the enjoyment still of when they were even 10, 11, 12 years old and play for that same reason. Some do see it as a career and don’t necessarily enjoy the ins and outs of players, they do see it as a job.

IN: Of the 1,000 games you’ve done, have you got any idea how many of the league’s grounds you’ve visited?

IL: I have counted that up several times. I believe I’m now, out of the 92, I’m on 88. What hasn’t helped is the last couple of years of teams coming out, so the Harrogate’s, Leyton Orient, Salford coming up out of the conference or the National League. I’ve been lucky because obviously, when I started at Cardiff, they were in what is now League Two. So, I managed to knock off and mark off a lot of those games, worked our way through the divisions getting through all those and at one point 2 years ago, I was one game, I was Burton away, from completing the 92. And it was literally that summer several teams come up in it, then knocks you back a little bit. There are a few grounds, obviously, I’ve been to the old White Hart Lane, but I haven’t been to the new Tottenham Stadium. I had the pleasure of going to the Boleyn ground, but I haven’t been into the Olympic Stadium. So, it’s how you classify now, the pleasure of going to all those clubs and the grounds because some of the new clubs are moving into new stadiums and fantastic arenas.

IN: And dare I ask, have you got a favourite ground?

IL: Goodison [Park] being an Evertonian myself the atmosphere with how close the fans are to the stadium, the ground as well. It’s not a practical ground in terms of working logistically, getting the kit skips and setting up in the dressing rooms. Wembley was fantastic as well it has that feel, even though it’s not the old stadium with the Twin Towers, you still have that feel of like when the coach drives in seeing all the fans surrounding the stadium. It still has that effect.

IN: Now, obviously, every professional club has a kit man, and I understand you’re quite a tight fraternity. But I’m just wondering, is there like a godfather of kit men? Is there somebody that you all aspire to be or to look up to?

IL: Obviously, there’s a few that have been in the game slightly longer than myself. Kevin McCormack, for example, at your club Portsmouth, an ex-marine as well and boxing in the Commonwealth Games. Obviously, there was the likes of the Vic Akers at Arsenal who had been there for such a period of time. Jimmy Martin at Everton is now probably The Godfather. He was I believe their coach driver in the 70s and 80s, and then as the role took on more relevance became kit man. So, Jimmy, probably, actually is the Godfather to kit men at the moment. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting him several times, and he’s one of the most welcoming kit man managers you’ll come across in the game as well. But yeah, there’s lots about, some obviously at different stages of their careers and operate in different ways of how the individual clubs setup. But you always try and touch base and speak to your colleagues at other clubs. You also try and have a good rapport with them, because there may be moments where, for example, they may forget something, or they need to reseal a shirt. So, you’ll help each other out on a reciprocal basis as well.

IN: Now, I’m very glad you raised that point, because that was a question I wanted to ask you. I understand that in your world, the greatest faux pas you can possibly make is to forget something. Have you ever forgotten anything Ian?

IL: Yes, yeah, there’s always moments where a player may forget their boots, or the boots may not get packed in or you’ve done something wrong. So, when I set up on a match day, for example, home games, I’ll always try and set up the day before a game. Away games, ideally, you would try and go in the day before and set up in the evening. But I usually try and get mid-morning, several hours before, but I’ll always allow a small allowance of time for, excuse my language but I call it my ’oh shit moment’. So, it just allows you that time for if something goes wrong. For example, we played Exeter a couple of years ago, we had a couple of new signings coming in, I started printing up some shirts. We had David Wheeler, we brought in, so we were playing in our black kit for the game. Packed the shirts, checked everything off, ’yep, no problems’. Get to the ground, I’ve started taking the shirts out to the skip hanging them up. At the time, we had gold numbers on the back of our black shirt. However, I’d been printing other colour shirts at the same time and on Dave Wheeler’s shirt I’d printed white numbers. So, there was a moment, obviously the shirt was named and numbered. At one point, I thought I was going to be having to get a gold Sharpie and colour it in! You can have these moments where something goes wrong or you thought you have something there and you’ve moved it to the other side of the dressing room. So, it’s just staying calm, being focussed, really, in those moments and not losing your head. We had an occasion a couple of years ago, Gillingham travelled up, their physios come into the dressing room mid-morning saying, ’seeing if you could help me out?’ I said, ’yeah, no problem. What do you need, to print a shirt?’ They said, ’we forgot our shirts.’ ’Sorry?’ He said, ’yeah, our kit man has forgot his shirts.’ So, he says, ’have you got a reserve kit or something we can borrow?’ And I’m thinking, I’ve only been at MK a couple of months. And I knew, the way they operated at the time, there wasn’t a reserve kit in stock. So I’ve gone down to our storeroom to see what there was that they could have borrowed. And all there was the MK Dons under-18s shirts, which were pretty much medium shirts, and they had obviously a couple of big lads at the time. So, we knew we couldn’t use that. And I said, ’Well, the only other kit I’ve got, I’ve got in my car. I’ve got my Radstock under-18s kit.’ They said, ’Is it numbered?’ ’Yeah’. It was red shirts and, luckily, they had the shorts and socks at the time. So, I’ve gone out to the car and brought in the Miners under-18s kit, which luckily was cleaned and in my car. And they took that into their dressing room ready in case. At one point, they were going to be wearing them, then in the meantime, I realised they said they had their warm-up T-shirts. So, I said, ’you’ve got a T-shirt with your club sponsor on, your crest, why don’t you just number those up?’ So, in the short term, they started then printing the player’s squad numbers on the back of the warm-up T-shirts before the game. And then I think 10 minutes before kick-off, the players were warming up in what they were going to have to wear for the game. Luckily, somebody had managed to get from Gillingham with a set of shirts for them to wear. But for a time they were going to have to be wearing Radstock Town under-18 kit in a football league game, which would have been great publicity for the club!

IN: That’s an incredible tale. I think we probably need to bring it back to the Western League because you are the secretary at Radstock Town, but you’re also the under-18s manager and you have been for some time. The previous times we’ve spoken, for radio at the time it would have been, was in that job. What’s it been like Ian running the Radstock under-18s this season? Because you know, these are strange times and I think we’re all sort of getting used to it in terms of football and to a certain extent Western League football, but how was it to manage the restrictions for your under-18s?

IL: We were, partly through some of the communications I get through work as well, when we came back out of the initial lockdown in June and started making preparations, we were able to put some good guidelines in for the club to operate, in terms of training in small groups of five and six, in those initial lockdowns. So, I think we were one of the first clubs to come back training. We started a couple of weeks with some of our own protocols in place with the under-18s, just testing the water seeing how they went training at Southfields. Then we introduced again the same guidance with the coaches towards the first team. We try and train as one club, because we want that pathway for the first team, the under-18s and the reserves, so everyone gets that opportunity, so we’re not operating as three clubs as well. The manager at the first team level with Ryan now being in charge, with Nathan and Brett previously, it’s bodies in training but also the quality as well, that players know there’s somebody wanting that pathway to come from. So, we started, and we had a long pre-season not knowing exactly when the league seasons were going to start. I think it ended up being close to a 12-week pre-season, which is far longer than what we’d normally go for, using one of the fields near Writhlington School that the school let us have. We scheduled a lot of games pre-season, getting bodies back in and getting players ready for match preparation really, with our game plans. So, it was a case of making sure we adhered to all the national restrictions, firstly making sure players were safe and the guidance was followed. The football ran pretty smoothly, really, in our preparations as well going for that. Then when the games did restart, we had the protocols at Southfield, a lot of work had taken place on work on the changing rooms, around the ground, and in the clubhouse. Over the period of lockdown, there’d be working parties getting everything up to speed. So, we were very, very lucky there to be ready to go on day one of the season. Obviously, the Western League have started, the County League started and the under-18 for the league we changed just over a year ago, nearly two years ago now to the Wilshire Senior League, which is a very well-run League. It’s good footballing people making those decisions as well and focus on getting players on the pitch rather than sometimes the politics which you do get at some league structures and organisations. It’s new faces as well, and different oppositions, we find being to the western side of Wiltshire the travel is slightly easier as well, that you’re not having to travel down the M5 corridor for games to be there for 6pm as well. So, in terms of that, it’s far easier on players, parents as well for that commute. We found, obviously, playing you are going into the unknown, where sometimes you’re playing against the same teams in Somerset, the players grow up alongside playing the same faces and they go into games knowing what to expect, which is; sometimes actually players have that premeditated idea, however you set up a game plan, it’s a mental thing there as well. So, going into the Wiltshire League and playing teams that you’re not familiar with, it’s more similar to the Western League example, because you’re playing teams from further afield, you don’t necessarily know what you’re coming up against. So, you can focus on your own preparation, you’ll give respect to the opposition throughout the game, but you can stick to your own game plan and how you want to develop your team.

IN: Because I know that the progression that you talk about from the under-18s through to the first team, you know, it’s a very important element of the philosophy at Radstock Town, but it’s one that’s borne real fruit for you, isn’t it? Because I know you had a very successful under-18s side, certainly when I was covering you for Somer Valley FM, we had those glorious FA Cup nights. But a lot of those players who played so outstandingly well in that tournament have gone on to play with distinction for Radstock Town.

IL: That’s a proud thing, what we’ve got the moment and it’s a focus of the club’s to have that pathway of players progressing through. We were lucky that group of players, we had six or seven that have become stablished in the Western League, and even higher as well. And the focus is, we have to be looking, with the under-18s not for the immediate group as well, we have to keep that pathway of players. So, introducing five or six new younger ones, under-16s, into the group at the bottom end each season, in terms of the age, because you’re going to have that complete momentum of players. Because one of the biggest things, if you focus on a group of single age players for one year, you have to then completely rebuild. If you can have that momentum of players moving out the top end into the first team reserves and players being moulded in, we’ll try and encourage even under 15s to come and train with us so they’re not rabbits in the headlight. They’re getting used to what we’re about in terms of the training and the development as well. We want to keep that momentum going and that pathway, but one of the biggest things is because we’ve had that pathway of people like Morgan Skipp, Rico Sobers, Jack Scrivens, Callum Taylor to name a few, Mason Harrison more recently. It’s a proven track record and progression that we can offer to players. So, where teams will be operating and I think younger players do want senior football quicker, again, we have to work with the management there to find the right times to blood them into the first team. Some players are ready as soon as they turn 16 to go straight in, whereas some, Morgan Skipp for an example, had a season and a half with the reserves before he really became established with the first team. Then I think before he was 21 he had played 100 games for the first team. So, it’s finding the right steppingstones for the players, for recruitment to show where we are battling in such a tight area with the likes of Welton, Odd Down, Paulton, even Bishop Sutton and Frome on our doorstep and Wells. It is a tight area with a lot of clubs fighting for the same players, where you can go further afield, somewhere like Cleveland or Portishead, there isn’t that competition for those players. So, we have to offer something different at Southfields, so the welcoming environment, it’s not just about the players, we want to get the parents and the families supporting them and the club as well. But I think that’s one of the biggest things. We don’t want, necessarily, players coming 20 or 30 miles in unless they’re exceptional into the group, at any level of the club. I think if we have local players, it adds on the gate, friends, family want to support the club, and the supporters will always provide that support to someone that’s genuinely local and have that connection to the club.

IN: Excellent stuff Ian, thank you ever so much for taking the time to speak to us. 1,000 games, of course is an incredible achievement. And just before we go, can you just remind us, you’ve been raising money for the Bath Mind charity, can you just give listeners a last idea of where they can find your JustGiving page?

IL: So, I’ve got a JustGiving page which is set up as IanLanning2 at JustGiving.com. The link is on the Radstock Town club Twitter, and our Instagram page as well and also on my own personal Twitter account, @IJL79

IN: Excellent. Thanks very much indeed Ian for your time and I look forward to catching up with you when we get back playing properly.